Thoughts/advice about title music in fan productions?

Roo · 08-19-2009

Listening to various fan productions it seems that people are happy to use music from the official versions of whatever they are making, be it Doctor Who, Star Wars, Star Trek or Planet of the Apes. So the temptation for myself with making a drama based on the 1960s Time Tunnel TV show is to just get out the soundtrack CD and pinch the title theme from that – but should I? Isn’t it a bit dodgy copyright-wise? (Although some might say that making a fan production at all is dodgy - which is a fair point.)

What are people’s thoughts and advice on this subject?

JulieH · 08-23-2009

It is dodgy. Fanfic is a giant grey area. The larger franchises have the advantage of the "everybody does it" defense.

It's not a technical defense but more of a "If the people who have the rights to Doctor Who were going to sue, they'd have done so long before now. So they probably won't."

There must be websites somewhere about the legalities of fanfic. I know they have panels on it at a number of sci fi conventions I've attended, though I've never actually gone to the panels.

Wikipedia has this to say.

And these guys seem to have a lot of technical cred.

Basically, you have to weigh the pros and cons and decide for yourself - the chances are that if anyone who has rights to Time Tunnel decides to send you a cease and desist letter, you will just have to take everything down and all your work will be wasted.

On the other hand, how likely is that?

On yet another hand - why not skip using the name and specific setting of Time Tunnel, and start with something similar with your own title and characters?

I know - I answer a question with a question....

Gregg · 08-23-2009

Fanfiction has no particular legal defense. Neither does using music you don't have the rights to. Of course, if the rights to the music are held by someone other than the person with the rights to the show, you're really just doubling the odds that someone will come after you.

Kirok · 09-27-2009

I went over most of this ground on the MobileRead forum, regarding a project I had last year for publishing Trek fan fiction as eBooks.

I think the ethical question here is the same as with fan productions in general, are you copying the original or are you making an unauthorised derivative work from it?

If I took a copy of "The Trouble With Tribbles" and tried to sell it as something I had produced I would get the pants sued off'n me by CBS/Paramount and rightly so. Illegal copying and sale is a multimillion-dollar cottage industry and if you buy a bootleg copy of a movie you're not a fan you're a damn fool. The bottom line is that if Paramount doesn't get a fair return for their investment there be no more Trek movies.

If I took the script of "The Trouble With Tribbles" and tried to palm it off as something I had written I would get the pants sued off'n me by the show's author, David Gerrold and rightly so. Plagiarism is a sin for which you will go to a special pugatory where imps will make fun of your lack of creativity for the rest of eternity!

However if I made a Star Trek parody called "A Dribble of Troubles" (Dibs on that title!) that is full of original barbed wit and humour, not only will you be protected by US law as a satire but you can take pride in the original work that you have done and preface your work by saying "The author reserves the right to be identified as such for all original material in this script. All references to Star Trek are the copyright of ... yadda, yadda, yadda"

It would take a particularly brave person to try to market the finished satire/parody, although Star Wreck has indeed walked that fine line, and personally I would settle for the indirect rewards of the raising of your stock as a writer. If you have a wildly popular fan work behind your belt people are more likely to look at your subsequent original work, maybe even at the Cannes festival?

However you're talking about incidental music aren't you? That, my friend, is a different kettle of fish.

The music industry is split over what some see as the possible drift into copyright anarchy that not protecting copyright tooth-and-nail could entail. Some point out that it could lead to new ways of raising revenue and isn't all black. YouTube has thrown in the towel and is policing music videos now but this is probably because people have been accessing them as a type of video jukebox for the music rather than the producer's video.

The difference here is that you will be using theme music that is probably the copyright of the TV company that made Time Tunnel (guessing here) so they will probably view your use of the music in the same way they view your use of the plot / names / placenames etc. This usually means that if you create something that they see as good publicity or even neutral publicity they'll turn a blind eye knowing that they can close you down at any time if they so desire.

If on the other hand the theme music is the copyright of one of the major record labels you could be up the proverbial creek because in some cases (I've known it to happen) they will send you a C&D just as a matter of policy.

All I can suggest is ...

Do your homework: who is the copyright owner of the music?
Don't play the full clip
Overlay the clip with speech so that it is useless to a video jukebox
clearly show that you don't own the copyright and flag who it does belong to
It wouldn't hurt to hyperlink this to a site that legally sells the music and encourage listener's to buy it as a sign that they would support more of the show, Time Tunnel, this could be linked with a general hope expressed that they will resurrect the series. It'll almost certainly never happen but this will show exactly where you stand as a fan ... and if you're not a fan, why are you doing it?

Copyright: Can't live with it and can't live without it!

Cheers

K

Kirok · 09-27-2009

... which brings me to a similar query. Its true, I'm not the fount of all knowledge that I sound like sometimes

I am putting together an audio drama based on a pirate radio station in the Crimson Skies universe of an alternate America in 1937. Now obviously one would expect music, especially since ... well, you'll have to wait for the casting call summary. Just take my word for it, I would like some authentic contemporary music as incidental music for the production.

Now, everything I said in my last post stands against me because, whilst there is Crimson Skies theme music, I am looking at incidental music from well-known musical figures of the time like Benny Goodman and Robert Johnson and I would particularly like to use clips from music that is known today, like Sing, Sing, Sing and There's a Hellhound on My Tail.

Has anyone had experience with using music from that era?

Cheers

K

sounddguy · 09-27-2009

I can't help you with experience, because I would never open that can of worms.
All of that music, the recorded version and the publisher rights, are well covered
under copyright. Any one of those owners, or all of them, could have a field
day with you if it comes to their attention.

There are commercial libraries that offer some "sound a likes" that can be licensed for your use.

You could attempt to license the music, but that will cost time and money, assuming that you can get the rights.

Having once spent $3000 proving that water runs down hill naturally, I have lived by the Star Wars concept of "avoiding Imperial entanglements."

Kirok · 09-29-2009

	Quote:	sounddguy
	I can't help you with experience, because I would never open that can of worms. All of that music, the recorded version and the publisher rights, are well covered under copyright. Any one of those owners, or all of them, could have a field day with you if it comes to their attention.

You mean 72 year old works are still covered by copyright in America? I thought that the "life of the composer (author) plus 70 years" ruling only came in after January 1, 1978? Was it retrospective? Hmmm. I had heard that Disney had changed the laws of the land to protect their copyright over "The Mouse" but I would have thought that music would have been a little less ... <shrugs> Can someone please explain how I will be taking money out of the mouth of Robert Johnson when he has been dead 70 years? Surely even under these draconian laws his original recordings should be in the public domain?

	Quote:	sounddguy
	Having once spent $3000 proving that water runs down hill naturally, I have lived by the Star Wars concept of "avoiding Imperial entanglements."

Whilst I'm not an expert on Star Wars, my understanding is that George Lucas is, in fact, one of the most forward thinking of the movie moguls by allowing a certain amount of his copyright material to be legally used by fan film makers to make shows that they can submit in a studio sanctioned film festival that gets coverage on commercial TV.

Nah! Everyone knows he's just a flash-in-the-pan!

If what you say is true, the vested interests of the music industry are not protecting the classics of music, although in some cases they might be contributing towards the estate of the original artist. They are merely placing them in an ivory tower, museum pieces, only known to fan historians. By their insistence on the letter of the law over copyright they will merely deny themselves free publicity. Such a shame that I might not be able to use a fan production to introduce the great works of the swing era to another generation.

Fortunately contemporary musicians are quite often happy to see their works used in fan works.

Cheers

K

Kirok · 09-30-2009

What is the copyright position of OTR shows that re-broadcast original shows without any changes whatsoever other than an introduction perhaps? Whilst I support their efforts when they are provided for free or only charge for shipping and materials when they offer a CD, surely because of the nature of their shows "Any one of those owners, or all of them, could have a field day with [them] if it comes to their attention."

K

sounddguy · 10-06-2009

	Quote:	Kirok
	You mean 72 year old works are still covered by copyright in America? I thought that the "life of the composer (author) plus 70 years" ruling only came in after January 1, 1978? K

If you want to use a 72 year old recording, you may be in the clear. If the recording itself is more modern, the the recording is covered, the performers
are covered and the publisher is covered and all will want compensation.

As to those dealing with OTR shows, they play loose with the rights and as long
as they don't get caught, everything is fine. In the case of my legal defense,
I won the suit and did not have to pay damages. BUT, it cost me the $$ to defend
the case.

Kirok · 10-07-2009

I still hold with my assessment of the probity of TPTB in the Music industry. Always remember that I am talking about a fan production. If they, in their infinite wisdom want me to stop being a fan then so be it.

I shall retract all material that supports them and their artists,stop buying their products and out them for their lack of regard for their fans and the artists they are supposed to be representing.

Kirok of L'Stok
The fan production curmudgeon